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000006_icon-group-sender _Thu Jul 6 08:35:22 2000.msg
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Received: (from root@localhost)
by baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA03576
for icon-group-addresses; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:35:05 -0700 (MST)
Message-Id: <200007061535.IAA03576@baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU>
From: "Mark Evans" <evans@unbounded.com>
To: <icon-group@optima.CS.Arizona.EDU>
Cc: "Clinton L Jeffery" <jeffery@bo.Egr.UNLV.EDU>
Subject: RE: A better GUI for the next generation
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 10:04:43 -0500
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No irritation intended. The situation is intrinsically confusing which is why I
used the term "next generation." Between AZ and NV there have been several
sprouts (Icon, Idol, Godiva, Unicon, Jcon, Iconc) plus sounds to the effect that
Icon qua Icon is now frozen in time, and the future is Unicon.
The wrapper concept applies equally to either Icon or Unicon. If Icon qua Icon
has any sort of future, then I formally recommend the wrapper concept for it as
well. Anyone wishing to cross-post my notes to Unicon is welcome to do so.
Since Unicon is not even released yet (for Windows, the major platform) and
Clint told me the traffic is still light over there, I felt the Icon list a more
appropriate place to post. I would certainly appreciate any etiquette FAQs that
either AZ or NV teams would like to manufacture and post. What exactly *is* the
future of Icon after all? From what I understand, the only active development
is taking place under the Unicon banner.
To answer S. Mohamed's points, I might well volunteer if the development were
more transparent. The lack of transparency keeps Icon/Unicon/whatever in the
minor leagues and limits the volunteer base. Icon has been around at least as
long as Python's 10 years. There are plenty of open-source teams doing this
sort of thing, e.g. SourceForge. The number of Python support resources and web
sites is truly astounding.
So the suggestion stands, that open-source development should go all the way and
follow the model of similar endeavors. That does not mean that control is
relinquished but it means a team can form around the effort and the world can
know what they are doing at all times. Python for example has formal mechanisms
for improvement proposals and standing releases of last-final plus current-alpha
software builds and a source code repository.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Clinton L Jeffery [mailto:jeffery@bo.Egr.UNLV.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 7:40 PM
To: Mark Evans
Cc: icon-group@cs.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: A better GUI for the next generation
Mark Evans recently suggested that we develop better GUI tools. If the
suggestion was for Icon, it should say Icon not Unicon, otherwise you
confuse (and maybe irritate) some people. From the Icon standpoint, but not
speaking for the Icon project, I would say your request for better GUI tools
is valid, and you are welcome to develop and distribute such tools. I used
to sponsor student projects to improve VIB, but have given up on it.
Since Mark suggests new GUI "wrapper" classes for Unicon, I will post a
longer reply to the message to the Unicon list and hopefully we can have
a discussion of it there. Unicon stuff is accessed via
http://icon.cs.unlv.edu; the mailing list is up but not archived yet.
Regards,
Clint, jeffery@cs.unlv.edu